Hey, it's Luca and welcome to The Luca Savazzi 

Podcast. A lot of people slowly disconnect from themselves without even realizing it. And maybe 

you're one of them. Somewhere along the way, you've learned that you were just too much, 

too unrealistic, too weird, too emotional, too creative, too risky, or simply just not practical 

enough. So instead of accepting who we are, we adapt and we become who we think we're supposed 

to be until one day we look back at our lives and we think, "What do I actually want? What lights 

me up? What part of me have I been ignoring?" Maybe you are someone with a lot of ideas, 

creative, you have dreams, you're curious, you have ambitions that never really disappeared. 

They just got buried underneath expectations, fear, survival, or the pressure to fit in. 

If your life now looks good on the outside, but on the inside something feels off, like you've 

drifted from yourself, maybe the bigger question is how many of the choices you're making today 

are actually yours. So, if this sounds like you, don't go anywhere because today's conversation is 

all about the beliefs that shape our choices, the identities that we've become attached to, and what 

happens when we finally give ourself permission to question our beliefs and stop hiding who we are 

and go for what we want. Today's guest is Maggie Harlow. She's a very successful entrepreneur and 

a trusted advisor to business people on multiple continents. She has built multi-million dollar 

companies, led high-performing teams in various industries, and she's been highlighted, awarded, 

and featured in many national media outlets. She's committing to helping high achievers like you 

and me discover a different kind of victory. She knows that many of us already reached impressive 

milestones, yet we hunger for something more, a sense of alignment, fulfillment, and 

true peace. She's also the author of the book Everyday Extraordinary: How Giving Yourself 

Permission Changes Everything. Through her work and her book, she teaches how giving yourself 

permission can unlock a new level of freedom, self-direction, and selfrust. Permission 

to express yourself, permission to create, permission to want something different, and maybe 

most importantly, permission to fully be yourself. Please help me. Welcome to tThe Luca Savazzi 

Ppodcast, Maggie Harlow. Hey, Maggie. Oh, Luca, I'm so glad to be here. It took took a minute, but 

I figured it out. We got it. We got it dialed in. I'm excited about this conversation also 

because we've been talking about this for   a couple of weeks and every time we've been 

talking it feels like it should have been its own episode. We should have recorded it. We 

should have recorded everything. So what becomes possible if we stop waiting for permission 

and we start questioning those beliefs that you know are running our lives? Well, I'm glad 

you asked, Luca. I'm glad you asked. Uh yes, I believe that permission is the doorway that all 

of us can open. I think so often in life we think we have to qualify, we have to prove something, 

we have to have some certification, some approval, even an expectation that other people may have 

to to let us do the things we want to do in life. And what I was raised in a family that believed 

that permission is self-granted. That if there's something you want to do, if there's something 

you want to try, it's really up to you to decide what rules you're going to follow. Um, and it all 

came from my grandfather who who repeatedly said, "Rules are for the fools who need them." And 

he really believed that you you make your life, you make your choices, and no one 

can decide those things for you. So, has there been a point where this was 

different for you? Yeah, I grew up um in a family that, like I said, that was really okay with, you 

know, they never really told me what I should or shouldn't do. That really was not what, you know, 

they didn't give that kind of guidance. And so when I graduated from high school and was going 

to go to college, I didn't I didn't know what to I didn't have a sense of what I wanted to study. 

It was not a conversation my family would have   would be to say um well you should do this or you 

should study this or you should find a good job. They really were like well what do you what do you 

want to study? You know and so I ended up studying oil painting. Okay. And so I studied art and it 

was a wonderful education. I had a I had a great time in college and I'm still an artist. Um but 

it was I called it my degree in unemployment. And how so? So I went to work for the family business 

because I I didn't have any other plan. And I kind of just went through life floating along like a 

like a raft in the in a river just floating along. And I finally um at age 35 I finally felt like 

I woke up. I I was married. I had two kids. We um were both working great jobs. But I just had 

this epiphany that while I was happy in my life, I was not really doing something that excited me 

every day that that I was I was happy to be doing. And that's when I decided I needed to start 

paddling and not just so so much floating. I needed to start giving myself permission to choose 

the direction of my life. And that's when we quit our jobs and started a business. And then I became 

addicted to this idea of my own self-reliance, my own ability to make choices. And it's sort of like 

I woke up. I felt like I woke up. And since then, I'm now 57. I've done a lot of things that I gave 

myself permission to do. I wrote a book, which I never planned to write a book. I'm back to making 

art, which I never knew would be something I would do. Um, and I and giving myself the ability to 

listen to that inner child and and what she wants. And that's changed my life. I think as children, 

we're good at giving ourselves the freedom to play games or do the things we want or enjoy the 

things we want to enjoy. But I think as adults, these thoughts creep in as you move into adulthood 

of what you should do, what the expectations are, what's normal, are you fitting in. Um, 

and I think that those kinds of invisible um barriers can shape our behavior and convince us 

to do things or not do things that we we really we really want to be doing with our lives. Um, and 

so I've discovered that through the way my family raised me, through the culture of our family, we 

have a very permissive culture of make yourself happy. You get one chance in life and it's easy to 

talk yourself out of the things you really want. And so I try to encourage um especially busy 

successful people who are stressed and trying to do everything right and perfectly. And I like 

to help folks get back in touch with who they are um and give themselves permission to make the 

choices that really resonate with them. How do you know what is actually right if you have all 

this permission? Like you've been raised having   permission to discover your own path. How do you 

know what is your path? Oh, you make mistakes, right? You try and you fail or you um you make 

a choice and you realize this doesn't quite fit right for me. Um, I think that I have learned 

that when something doesn't quite feel aligned, when I tune in to really who I am, I notice it. 

You can start noticing sooner and sooner. So, for example, um, one of the stories I tell is 

that I was ironing my husband's shirt. He asked me to iron his shirt before we went out. It's a 

very normal thing. It's a very typical marital sort of helper type of thing. But that particular 

night, I suddenly was gripped with this feeling of I I don't want to iron ever again. I never want to 

iron again. And I know that feeling. Yes. You're just like, I really hate this. I really hate 

this. Um and so I decided that was it. And I offered my iron to my husband if he wanted it. And 

he said no. He would he would take his shirts to the dry dry cleaner and it was just it's a small 

thing but it was such a moment of like oh I can make choices. I don't have to do things because I 

think I'm obligated or I think I'm expected to or society would tell me that if I'm a good person 

I would do that thing. And so um I think it can it reflects in my life in small choices but it 

also reflects in big choices where I spend my time um professionally pursuing things that really are 

fun and exciting to me that really resonate with me and not just you know trying to meet everyone 

else's expectations. So in small ways and in big ways, we often are guided by these invisible 

ideas, the beliefs that underpin our choices. But you can question those beliefs and you can 

find out, is this truly what I believe? So for me, questioning the thought, well, if I'm a good 

wife, I'll iron my husband's shirt. And when I questioned that, I realized I can still be 

a good wife and not iron his shirt. it it's okay. They can both be true. Why do you think 

um it gets harder when you you know get older, you get more beliefs. Why do don't we question 

those beliefs like earlier? Um I think that we start to create an identity. When you create an 

identity like an identity like I'm a successful business owner or um I'm an athletic person or um 

I'm really kind and generous, we we create these identities in our life and then we feel bound 

to them. And when we start to really identify the beliefs that we want to hold and the beliefs 

we want to give up, that's when you start to give yourself permission. But our identity, you know, 

for example, um if I am someone who likes to be really fit and I like to see myself as like very 

athletic and very strong is might be difficult for me to make a choice that doesn't reflect that 

identity. And so those are invisible ways that our identity controls us. And I think that I want 

to invite everyone to create an identity that is flexible that lets them make a different choice. 

So, if I'm a successful business owner and I feel like every year I have to make more money and I 

have to, you know, I have to build my business and I have to be the most successful and I have to 

be compared to other businesses. Suddenly, that's making choices for me that maybe I don't really 

want. Maybe I don't really want to work that hard, but I've fallen into this identity and I'm stuck 

with it. But you're not. You can change your identity. Changing your identity means, you know, 

changing the way people see you or people have to deal with you changing that can be scary. 

What would be a way to start that change? Um, I think that if there's something you've decided 

you're ready to do, so um, let's say that you've always been a volunteer for a soup kitchen, right? 

you've always been the person who shows up every weekend to work at a soup kitchen. And maybe 

you're ready to let it go. Maybe you're ready to take your weekend back and sleep in on that 

day. Um, and it can feel like there's a lot of pressure and expectation that people are expecting 

you. They they reward you with praise. They give you attention. They give you good feelings. They 

say you're you're a good person for doing this. And that somehow stepping away from it feels like 

a betrayal. Um, I would invite you to question those beliefs. So, write down that powerful belief 

that maybe has a grip on you, that belief of, um, uh, people expect me to show up to this soup 

kitchen and if I don't, I'm being selfish. And then you can start questioning that. Is that 

true? Is it really true? Um, would people who love me really want me to show up if I don't want 

to show up? There's a way to separate yourself from your beliefs. Sometimes our beliefs are 

hidden and they kind of just make us operate   like a puppet. But when you start really writing 

down your beliefs and what's holding you back, um you can question that and loosen the grip of 

that belief. You can still be a good person and decide you don't want to work in a soup kitchen. 

Again, both can be true, but we forget and and and we we want to we want to meet the expectation 

and the identity that we think other people have of us. But when does giving yourself permission 

cross that boundary where your permission overlaps with someone else's boundary? I think you have 

to learn to be uncomfortable at that line that um sometimes we get uncomfortable giving ourselves 

permission because we think that our that overlap is a betrayal of some kind. So for example, if I 

go to the manager of the soup kitchen and I say, "Look, I'm I'm not going to be able to do 

this anymore." and they say, "Well, well, that's a huge problem for us because we've we've 

built this around you. We've designed this around you being here. Now, what are we going to do?" 

I can decide whose responsibility that is. If I if I want responsibility and say, "I'm going 

to I'm going to keep working in the soup kitchen   and I'm going to recruit someone to help." Um, 

I can take that responsibility on, but sometimes that responsibility is an option. Just because 

someone has created something that has me at the center of it, that doesn't necessarily make it my 

responsibility. Have I signed a contract? Did we agree that this was going to be my responsibility? 

I think we often take responsibility because we don't want to disappoint or we don't want other 

people to have a reaction. And I've learned that um if that soup kitchen manager is disappointed, 

that's that's his right or that's her right. She can have those feelings about me. And that doesn't 

necessarily mean that because she has a feeling or a perception of me that that's true or real. She's 

allowed to think that. She's allowed to think I'm selfish and I can still do what I choose. And I 

think that that's hard for some people because we want we want to maintain our identity. I 

am a good person and I need her to agree that I'm a good person. But you don't actually need 

the agreement. It's really entirely up to you. Now we're talking about the soup kitchen, but also 

in a family uh situation where people are used to you having a particular role in the family and you 

realize that you have to set boundaries maybe or say no and protect your health, you know, balance 

it out. Yes. In personal relationships, in work relationships, in friendships, I think that we 

often show up because we're trying to maintain our identity. We want people to perceive us in a 

certain way, which in a way, Luca, is a control tactic. Like, it's a way for me to try to control 

what other people feel. And that's not really my job. It's not my job to control what other 

people feel about me or how they might react. They're entitled to feel what they feel. They're 

entitled to react and have their beliefs about me, but that's separate than who I am. I I love a 

saying by Byron Katy. She's one of the women who I study and um she's guided me and a lot of what 

I work on is based on what she has her thought leadership around belief and uh one of the things 

she says that I love is what people think of me is none of my business. It's an easy thing to say but 

it's a hard thing to actually live through. Often it also looks like it has to be this big thing, 

right? I permission to quit your job, permission to do something else, to do a new relationship, 

whatever. But it's in the small things. Yes, sometimes it's small choices, you know, we it 

doesn't have to be life-changing. It could be um as simple as um I don't I don't want to iron my 

husband's shirt or I don't want to be the person at work who's always uh cleaning out the coffee 

pot. I want someone else to do it. Um, you know, we we sometimes fall into these habits and 

choices and maybe we like them at first and then we decide we don't we don't like them anymore. 

I don't I don't want to be the person who is um responsible for walking the dog every day. 

I need someone else to step up and start doing   it. There there can be small choices that 

we make that feel like they're obligations, like we can't not do this. But in reality, if you 

sit and really sit with your beliefs and write them down, separate yourself a little bit from 

the belief, you might be able to find a path to um I don't have to be the person who always walks 

the dog. I can I can ask other people for help and and or even pay someone to walk the dog. I could 

hire someone to walk the dog. Um, but we we get stuck in a pattern and and these little things can 

help you learn how to do bigger things. It I find that it becomes addictive that when you start 

to learn you are completely in control of your choices that suddenly you're able to make more and 

more choices that align with who you are. You have this uh fun analogy where you speak about flushing 

the third. Okay. Tell us a bit about that. So years ago, years ago, I saw a football 

coach speak and he was telling a story about as a football coach, the most important thing he 

teaches his players is not how to tackle, is not how to run the ball. The most important thing he 

taught them was how to flush the turd. And what he meant by that is that you're going to make 

mistakes on the field. You're going to miss the   catch. You're gonna fumble the ball. You're gonna 

miss the kick. You might cost the team the game. You might, you know, you might really mess up 

really badly. But the more important thing is to focus on flushing that turd. So, it's a terrible 

gross analogy, but it's so vivid, right? So, if you make a turd, don't stand there and stare 

at it. Don't invite people in to look at it. Just flush it. Save the lesson. learn the lesson, but 

at the end of the day, nobody wants to hear about it. Nobody wants to talk about it. Let it go and 

clear your mind and be ready for your next move and and and clear yourself of that turd. So, my 

friends and I use this phrase sometimes when we're talking, maybe we're having drinks and we're 

talking about a problem at work. Something bad happened. Someone said something rude. your boss, 

you know, did something awful to you and we like to talk about it and we, you know, it's like this 

turd that we wanna all commiserate about how bad it is and always at some point in the conversation 

someone says it's time to flush the turd. Yeah. And we're going to be done talking about negative 

things and we're going to talk about other things.   So, it's okay to vent, but sometimes I know 

some people love to just they just they just want to hold on to it. And I just encourage 

people to like flush it, let it go. If you, you know, you compare it to that a third, then I 

I I think a lot of people would want to flush it and not hold on to it. So, you know, to create the 

life you want and and giving yourself permission also requires taking decisions. Yeah, I think that 

decision making is um is a is a really important topic because everybody does it differently. 

Everybody weighs decisions in different ways. Um, I am a very gut oriented decision maker. If I feel 

like a decision is clear for me and I'm drawn to it, I I will make that decision. I will I will go 

toward it. Um, and often I make a lot of mistakes and that means I have to unwind and and fix fix 

something. Some people get stuck in decisions and they want to make the right decision and they 

gather information and they gather information and they talk to people and they weigh it and 

they're waiting, I think, for that like green light. They're waiting for that perfect clarity 

um or to be perfectly prepared to know all the possible bad things that could happen. and they 

spend all this time in their head trying to make a decision and gathering information when in reality 

it's more important in most situations to make the decision and then work to make that decision the 

right decision. So if I am sort of I don't think there's ever really a right decision. Now people 

like to say that well that was the right decision. I we don't know because if a decision got made, 

you never know the opposite decision and how that would have turned out. So I might say I made 

the right decision to study art. Okay. Well, it it worked out. It it was it was it feels good. I 

feel like it was a good decision, but in reality, if I had chosen something else, that might have 

been a good decision, too. So, I would really encourage people to spend less time trying to 

make that perfect decision that has no mistakes, that has no risk, that has no chance of failure. 

Um, and be a little more excited that you're going to make a decision and then you're going to make 

it the right decision. You're going to invest   yourself in making it work. and in and failure and 

mistakes are inevitable and and spending all your time trying to avoid it. That is a huge mistake 

in my opinion to spend too much time trying to avoid a mistake or a failure because those are our 

teachers. So I don't want to be afraid of making a mistake or or having a failure. I want to make the 

best decision I can and then I want to make that decision the best. How can reading your book help 

me in making decisions and finding these little moments in every day to give myself permission? 

Well, there's um I think 57 chapters in the book, something like that. And each one is um a 

different mindset. Each one is a is a little it's like a little lens to look at the world through. 

And I don't think anyone is going to read every chapter. I don't think every chapter is going to 

resonate with people. They're all very different. They're short, but they invite you to um sort 

of just look through a new lens at the world. Um and it might give you a freedom here and there 

and bring you a little more joy. So, it's all tips and techniques that I've learned that people 

have taught me or techniques that I've used. And um and so I'm hoping that if there's one or two in 

there, Luca, like if you read the book and there's one or two of them in there, you're like, I'm 

going to remember that. I'm going to try that. Um I that's what I hope happens is that people find 

a little window they can climb through to make life a little easier and more joyful. If you give 

yourself like so much permission, you start giving yourself permission. Mhm. How do you avoid that? 

It doesn't become an excuse to not commit or to be distracted. Um, you know, I think it's important 

to uh when you are giving yourself permission to put the time in to really question what it's 

about, right? So, if um if I'm going to give myself permission to skip my workout today, like 

I'm I'm just going to I've decided I don't want to do it. I'm not not up for it. Uh to really ask 

myself, am I am I making that choice because it really gives me joy to do something else or am I 

just trying to avoid something I know I should do that I really want to do to take care of myself? 

And everyone has to make these decisions for themselves. I think Luca, we all know someone who 

is totally okay giving themselves permission to do whatever and they might be seen as irresponsible 

and they're breaking things and they're not able to maintain relationships and they're not living 

in a healthy way. That's not the life that I think I'm trying to guide people toward. I'm trying to 

guide people toward making choices and permissions that align with their values. I'll give you an 

example. Um, our Lauren, we we both know Lauren through Brienne Builder Group. Laura, Lauren 

Hassan, the other day she and I were talking   and she said, "Maggie, I just have to tell you, 

I used permission recently. I had booked a trip to go to a conference and I spent a lot of money 

to go to this conference. It was travel. It was a hotel. I I invested in the fee to go. It was a big 

big investment." And I got there and I was tired from the travel and I'm sitting in the conference 

and I find myself exhausted and unhappy and I decided I can give myself permission to go take a 

nap and then I can come back to the conference and I'll feel better and she did it. And I think that 

that is a very good example because I think we've all been in that moment. I've spent money to be 

here or I've invested in this thing or, you know, I've I've decided I'm doing this thing and I've 

spent my money or I've made my time to be here and then suddenly I realize I'm not. I need something 

else. I need I can't be here. I don't want to be here. I need a moment. I need to give myself 

permission to do something else. And we don't   want to give ourselves that permission because we 

feel like, oh, we're wasting. But I look at it as a healthy self-care. Lauren going to take that nap 

gave her the ability to be more present and make the most of that investment. And and so those are 

the kinds of permissions I love to see as opposed to permission to not show up for obligations or 

permission to blow people off. That's not what I'm talking about. No, true. That can be indulgent. 

So you have to you have to know when you are truly aligning with who you are and your values 

versus just blowing things off. Yeah. I also gave myself permission like this morning I I booked it. 

It's a stand-up comedy for beginners uh training. So yeah, I figure, you know, it's it's something 

I've been acting like all my life, but I never really done standup. That is so good, Luca. That 

is a great example because comedy is scary. Comedy is scary. It's hard. And I think what you've done 

is given yourself permission to go try something and maybe fail and maybe, you know, bring it back 

to your speaking or just to go have fun with it. I just absolutely love that. I thought that signing 

up for this class would get me out of my comfort zone. It would put me in front of other people, 

knowing other people, and making connections. And I'm not saying that I'm going to be a stand-up 

comedian, but it is going to expand you in some   way. And I think absolutely that is also something 

that is like really cool about trying new stuff and not being afraid to fail or suck. There's 

there's inherent value in trying something new. It it it doesn't matter if you're good at it. 

There is inherent joy and value in being willing to try something new and fumble around and be bad 

at it and and be okay with that. And I think that that is what we miss sometimes as adults is we 

get stuck with, well, I should only do what I'm good at. I should do this because I'm competent at 

it. I should do it because it makes sense. No. No. None of that's true. You can do things purely for 

the joy of doing it and trying and being terrible at it. I love it. It's a great example of exactly 

what people should be doing with their time is what lights them up. So, well done, sir. Well 

done. Thank you. Thank you. So before we wrap this up, like I would love for you to speak to 

the person who's listening and who is questioning themselves, holding themselves back, not giving 

themselves permission, or maybe even thinking   it's too late to give yourself permission to do 

something like what would you want them to know? I would want them to know that they can trust 

themselves that um sometimes we have the invisible chains on ourselves of what people are expecting 

and we don't want to see the disappointment on other people's faces or we don't want to hear 

um their questions about well why are you doing this? This sounds crazy to me. Um and and when we 

really tune in to who we are and what we want and you realize that you get one opportunity on earth, 

you get one opportunity to be here and live fully in the moment. Then we can start to write down 

those beliefs that are holding us back. Right? So if you have a if you have a wish, I want 

to um relocate. I want to move to a new town. And then you write down all the beliefs underneath 

that that have hold you back from making that big   decision or even a small decision. Um you can 

start to see the pattern in your belief and where those are really anchored. Are they 

anchored in what other people are going to   think or say or are they really anchored in your 

own beliefs and your own values of who you are? So my advice to them is to really think about 

that thing they want and then write down all the beliefs that hold them back and start to question 

them one by one. Is this really true? What is one way you start questioning those beliefs like 

very practically? Um there is uh there is free resources for anyone who's interested. Um, so I'm 

going to point them to you can visit my website maggie.com and there are some resources there. 

Uh, but you can also visit my personal uh guru, I'll call her, Byron Katie. She has a website 

called the work.com and all of her resources are free and you can download them and she will 

teach you how to question what you believe. Um, and I have a couple tools as well, but they're 

not as pointed as hers. That her technique in specifically around giving yourself the freedom to 

question what you believe is really powerful and um, so I recommend the work.com, but feel free 

to message me at maggieharlo.com and I will share with you my tools as well. You've been 

so generous to me, Luca. Thank you. Thank you   for having me here. And if I can help one person 

open that door of permission to give themselves something that thrills them or gives them joy, 

that's really what I want to do. Thanks so much, Maggie. And to you listening, maybe you're at 

home, at work, in your car, taking a walk outside. I hope this conversation sparked something 

for you because it's time to stop waiting for permission and start creating the life you know 

you want. You'll find links to Maggie Harlow, her book, Everyday Extraordinary, and everything 

we talked about in the show notes. And if this conversation made you think of someone you care 

about, share it with them. It's one thing to have to figure these things out on your own, 

but it's way easier and for sure a whole lot more fun if we're doing it together. I'm Luca and 

I can't wait to see you in our next conversation.