Have you noticed that lately it takes you longer to get started on work that used to come naturally? Maybe you're busy all day, but when the day is over, it feels like you haven't really move forward. And then you keep telling yourself you'll get back to exercising, eating well, spending time with the people you care about once things calm down. And somewhere along the way, you realize that you don't really feel like yourself anymore. If any of this sounds familiar, don't go anywhere because today's conversation is about what can happen when we keep pushing ourselves without noticing what it's costing us. Hey, it's Luca and welcome to The Luca Savazzi Podcast. Burnout rarely happens overnight and its early warning signs are often mistaken for everyday stress or simply being too busy. Today's guest is Jason Chadock. We had a great conversation about how the beliefs we hold, the responsibilities we carry, the stories that we tell ourselves can make it surprisingly difficult to recognize when it's time to stop pushing. Jason is a leadership strategist with more than two decades of experience helping leaders, teams, and organizations create healthier ways of working, stronger cultures, and more sustainable performance. While his work focuses on leadership, today's conversation was really about how we lead ourselves. After experiencing burnout himself, he created the H3 formula, a framework built around health, heart, and habits to help people realign with themselves and create a more sustainable way of working and living. Now, that combination of professional expertise and lived experience is exactly why I wanted to sit down and have this conversation with it. It's a pleasure to welcome Jason Chadock to The Luca Savazzi Podcast. Hey Jason, welcome to the show. Hey Luca, excited to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm excited as well. Especially because you know many of us we can keep going for a very long time and maybe not even recognize what it's costing us. So I want to start by asking you this. What do you hope people come to understand about themselves, about burnout after listening to this conversation? That's a great question. I think some of the biggest takeaways are identification. How do I how do I truly understand when I'm starting to get on the fringe of burnout or if I'm like starting to really slide down the hill towards it? And ultimately, let's prevent you from going into the valley. Let's let's keep let's keep you up on the mountain. Um Yeah. Because Luke, I'll be honest, as we'll dive into as we go, I I fell all the way into the valley, you know, and there's there's that that song into the valley of the shadow of death. It's a it's an old rap song and you know, it's real. It's real. And that's ultimately where I landed. And it's being able to identify some key signs. I think is is the the first approach and courage, Luca. And the reason I want people to be able to look inside and identify their courage is their courage to go talk to somebody or ask questions or research because personally I feel like something's off. I just don't like I don't feel right. and being able to ask some questions of people and have some conversations and for people to know they can reach out to me and I'm happy to answer questions they might have because they might just be curious. I'm not sure if I'm starting to feel burnout or not, but I'm curious. And it's interesting that you're saying that because um I was talking about it this morning with my partner and I was asking him like how do you deal with people that say, you know, I might experience burnout. I think I'm burning out because it's difficult sometimes to understand, you know, is it burnout or is it just overwhelm or is it just a temporary pressure? And even more than overwhelm, Luca, is it chaos? Okay. Is it like some key things? Is it chaos? Is there just so much chaos in my life, I don't know which way I'm going? Is it a lack of clarity? I'm not certain whether it's a work environment or home environment or all of that integrated together. Do I just not know where I'm going? Is it alignment? Are my values and my purpose and who I am not aligned? And I'm just talking a personal level. Well, I'm not even talking about work alignment because a lot of people feel it because they lose track of themselves because they're chasing things at work because there's a lack of clarity and alignment at work and that further takes them down that hole again brings them down the mountain. And we want to catch you at the halfway point of the mountain. We don't want you going in the valley. Mhm. you know, and I'm I'm using these references because, you know, I'm here in here in a the state of Colorado. We have mountains. So, we tend to reference mountains a lot here in Colorado. And and and Luca, those are very real things. Yeah. And you know, honestly, the hard part is sometimes we don't identify because we're just not sure. And we think it's just it's just a busy season. I just need to get through these things. And you know something, we're sitting here and it's the end of summer and it's it's August time frame here and well I I just got to get to September and then all a sudden Luca September turns I just got to I just got to get to se the end of September now. Well, no, I just got to get to October. And then, you know, here where I am, once you hit November, it's a fullbore rush for the next month and a half to two months because holiday season. So, why do you think we keep going even knowing that there is something off? Why is that? Well, I liken it to professional athletes. Professional athletes get a sprained wrist. Any sport, I don't care what sport. Can you imagine a soccer player with a sprained ankle? Mhm. That's like a running back in the NFL with a sprained ankle. That soccer player needs their ankle for everything they do. And that thrust to kick a ball constantly and we just think, well, it's just a sprain. It's just a sprain. I I can play it through the sprain. Tape it up. You know what I'm going to do, Luca? Here's here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to have an energy drink cuz I'm just tired today. Because that's one of the first things that starts showing up, the sleep. You're not getting the sleep that you need. Luca, I'm just going to take an energy drink. And then that energy drink, oh, you know, I just every Friday I need an energy drink, Luca. Every Friday I need one. Mhm. Then all a sudden, well, you know, it it was a long weekend. Now I need one on a Monday. Well, it's the middle of the week on a Wednesday. I I just need one on a Wednesday. So now I'm now I'm up to three energy drinks a week. Mhm. And I'm not talking the coffee most people drink in the morning. Talking like that midday energy drink, the boost. So Luca, we mask these things. And why is that? Like why do we mask and keep going? Disbelief of what? That we're actually starting to experience burnout because it almost like dehumanizes us a little bit. It brings us down that well no I I'm strong enough to work through this. I don't need the counseling. I don't need the coaching. I don't need a new system. I don't need this. But do you think people even realize it could be burnout? You know, at first, no. At first, no. They just think it's it's a thing. It's a singular thing. Well, I'm just not sleeping really good. Okay. Why are you not sleep? They're not researching further. Why am I not sleeping? Well, L, I'm not sleeping well because you know something? I'm taking stress home. Stress in my life. Stress from work. stress from family. I'm taking stress home. I'm not solving the stress factor and I'm waking up at 3 and 4:00 in the morning when maybe my normal time is not till 5 or 6. I'm waking up, my mind's racing on all the things I need to do. And they just think, "Oh, this is a season of my life." Cuz that's what I thought, Luca. I thought, "Oh, this is just a season. I'm opening up a new facility. Mhm. It's not a big deal. It's just a season." No, it's football season. cuz I also, you know, have have coached high school football for a very long time. It's just a season of my life, Luca. This I'm not experiencing burnout. I'm just tired cuz I'm doing too many things. And are you saying that, you know, if you think that it's a season, you just keep going because you know that season's going to end? Like that's the reasoning behind it? Yeah. And and Luka, we just keep putting it off. We push it to the side because we're taught to just power through. Just work harder. I'm just going to put in more hours. We all get the same 24 hours. There's no switching. I don't care. I don't care what city, what state, what country you live in. We get 24 hours in a day. Unless there's something magical out there I don't know about. Tell you about it. And the thing is, we just think we just need to power through this difficult week or this difficult month. And then it becomes a season. And by a season, I'm talking about that could be a several month period of time. For us out here, specifically the field that I work in, it's the summer. The summer's a busy season and we feel we just got to power through it. Then all of a sudden, it becomes the fall and we're still trying to power through it. So, we have this lack of identification that it's more than just a busy season and we get caught in the doom loop. What's the doom loop? The doom loop is the repeated negative behaviors. We're negatively reinforcing ourselves and tricking ourselves mentally to just think it's just it's just a busy time of year. It's just a season. No, I you know I I slept okay two days last week. Don't worry about the five days you didn't. It made me It makes me think of this conversation I had with a neighbor. I asked him how he was doing. Um and he said he was feeling stressed. He was feeling burned out. He wasn't sleeping well. Um got these, you know, fight, flight or freeze attacks. Yeah. And so he recognized the signs of burnout. And he also told me that this was the second time he experienced it. And so he then told me that he's been working non-stop for this period of time and he couldn't take time off and there was no one else to to um fill in for him. So, he was working non-stop and now he was burned out. And then he told me, "I'm off for a couple of weeks. I'll get through it. Everything will be fine in a couple of weeks." And it made me wonder, have we started to treat burnout as an acceptable price for being responsible? I love the question. So, I am new to the social media platform LinkedIn. Um, as we sit here, we're we're heading in, you know, it's August now. Okay. I joined LinkedIn, I think the end of October or November of 2025. And Luca, I already had my subject matter. I already knew what I speak about. I already knew the systems I put in place. Luca, I already I experienced burnout like more than a decade ago. So, it's not new to me. I just haven't gone public in the speaking realm of how we overcome it, how we do things, you know, I haven't gone public in that until obviously, you know, recently, right, the la the last year. It was eyeopening to me. What you just said is so prevalent on the social media site LinkedIn. How's that? And it's literally we wear burnout and overwhelm as a badge of honor. And that's what people talk about all the time. And you know something that really So I already had my material. I already I already had my systems in place because I've been working through this for decade plus. When I read I spent a month reading different things people posted. Luca, it was so mesmerizing to me because here's how they described it. It's just one more. Cuz we're taught just in the weight room, do that one more rep and you're going to get stronger. We're taught in in sports, run the one more gasser, you're going to get stronger. Hey, let's work for one more hour to get this project done. Then we don't have to wake up early tomorrow and we're going to be stronger for it. We're taught this as a positive. Now, we wear this burnout as a badge of honor and it's we're so proud. We did all these things and we hold it up. Yes, I won. Did we win though? Or did we actually diminish ourselves in that process and we put our bodies and our minds through the ultimate destruction because that's really what we do in the end is we destroy ourselves from the inside out. And that and that's really what I learned about on LinkedIn. So yes, to answer your question, we wear it as a badge of honor because society wrongly tells us the more we take on or the more we do or the more happiness we post to social media, we get rewarded for that, we get likes, which increases our dopamine levels and it gives us that quick zap of energy and we're excited that yes, I got a like. Someone commented this. Yes, someone reposted it. Yes, I get this. I get this. see everything that I did. And that's the issue. We start getting caught up in the eye and the dopamine rush we get from those likes and from those comments and things like that and we start thinking, "Oh, this is okay." Again, goes back to it's just a season of my life. It's okay cuz look, I get all this credit here on social media. Social media is fate. It's a facade. It's all it's all, you know, roses and and hearts and all sorts of stuff. And it's all that we we're all living our best life. And then you hear about these people that had their crashes a month later. Actually, you didn't know that whole family was going through divorce and separation and yet on social media, you'd have thought they were living the perfect life. We only post the things we want to share. Exactly. We do. And you know, I've been really diligent lately about posting the struggles. I I recently posted a blog that was talking all about my struggle with burnout. And I actually had someone someone message me back and say, "Wow, thanks for having the courage to go deep with that." And Luca, that's what I defined earlier is we lack the courage to come out and say this. Because if social media would have been what it is today back when I experienced Berno, I'm not saying social media didn't exist. Back then there was like X, which was formerly Twitter. There was Twitter, there was Facebook, and there was like Oh, this is going way back. There was something called MySpace. I don't even know if I don't even know if any of us remember MySpace. There was music on MySpace. Yeah. And And here's the thing. Back then, I would have posted celebrations of opening two new rec centers in 9 months because that is an unheard of feat to do. I would have posted all this fancy stuff and hey, kudos to this team. We did it. We're amazing. Blah blah blah. Luca inside, I was dead. I was absolutely dead. I had nothing to give the world. I was completely maxed out and I knew it but I didn't know I didn't know the definition of burnout. So what gave you the courage to face what was going on and talk about it? Like how did you first identified for yourself? Let's start there. Oh, this is embarrassing. It's embarrassing how how I I figured it out. I went to the hospital. H I literally got put in the hospital. Okay. I the stress, the lack of alignment, lack of clarity, and I'm talking life and work, all of these things together took me down such a pathway that the stress elevated so high. For a moment, my blood pressure skyrocketed. The reality though is my blood pressure stayed pretty steady. Luca, I hit severe migraines that literally paralyzed me. I was laying on a floor in a bathroom ill because I could not move. Now, that is that's the valley I talked about earlier. I I don't want someone to go from the mountaintop all the way down to that valley and sink on the floor. That's what I did. and Luca, the signs were all there. Let me go back a moment because you say you went from all up there to down in the valley. Why weren't you able to talk about this or to catch it sooner? A disbelief that I was not superhum. There's this expectation that I'm Superman. Whether it's my kids, whether it's my wife, whether it's my co-workers, there's this belief I'm Superman and I can do anything. Nothing can bring me down, right? There's that there's that belief that you're Superman. And and Luca to and mind you, this was back in like 2008 that this hit me. And back then, it wasn't in vogue to be vulnerable like that. Now, it's a little bit different. Yet, people still hide it. It's okay to be vulnerable. Now, Luca, the thing was there was such an expectation of how I show up every day, how I serve others every day, how I'm my expectation of how I'm there for my family every day. Do you think you were do you think you were rewarded by family, friends, your work for the fact that you were showing up and being that Superman? Oh, all the time. All the time. There's there there's the introduction to people. When I was in my work environment, there was an introduction. Luca, let's pretend for a minute we work together, okay? And one of your family members comes in or someone from the community that you know comes in. It was it was literally like this. Hey, come here. You would you literally Jason, come here. Come here. I want you to meet soando. Hey, so and so, meet Jason. Okay, he he's amazing. and he does this and oh we would not be able to do everything we do without him. He is such a leader or he is such this. So yes, there was this level of reward for pushing yourself to the edge and again it's that dopamine rush. It's the rush of feeling special, the rush of being needed, the rush of identification. So my identity got caught up in this false greatness and that's you enjoy that the identity. I'd be lying if I said I didn't because I was under 30 years old. UA was like 28 and 29 when all this hit and I was opening the fifth brand new facility already in my field. That was unheard of. I knew that I was setting myself up as the premier person in the field because of all these things I was doing and then that false recognition was coming in for it. So yeah, Luke, I was riding high from it. Were you already experiencing the signs of burnout at that? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But you know, Luca, I had to push that away because that would have been weakness. That would have been taking me off the pedestal. So I I Luca, I will tell you right now, I am a firm believer there's no science out there that I that I actually believe that that says you need 7.5 hours of sleep at night or everybody needs 8 hours of sleep at night. I do not believe in any of that. What do you believe? So we're all different and unique. We preach that as a society, right? We're all different. We're all unique. We all have unique gifts and talents. Well, our bodies are not all made the same either. And we all need different levels of sleep, nutrition. I mean, you look out there right now and there's like 80 different GLP1 type things you can take for weight loss to fit all these different body types, all these different chemical makeups of your body. Well, our sleep is the same way, Luca. We all need a different level of sleep to function in our optimal levels. For me, that magic number was 5 to 6 hours of sleep. I need to be somewhere in that range of 5 to 6 hours. I can survive if I'm having a struggle. I can survive for a couple days on four. I can't go beyond like 2 or 3 days on 4 hours of sleep though. Luca, there was nights I was sleeping for 2 and 1/2 hours. And that would last for a week. And Luca, it wasn't even a straight two and a half hours. It was like fall asleep for an hour and a half, wake up mind racing for 2 hours, fall back asleep for another hour, hour and a half, Luca. It was And I just ignored it. I'm just I'm just stressed because I'm opening a new facility or I'm just stressed because um my wife's pregnant or having another baby. I'm just Yeah, I had two kids during this time as well. How does someone who has not experienced burnout but doesn't want to go down that valley pick up on these signs? H that's a really good question. I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor. So I can't define like well you're in burnout level one, level two, level three. However, I have a belief there's a level one, level two, and level three. Level three is what I hit. Literally getting hospitalized. A couple years ago though, I did actually start dipping into level to like a level two, what I would define as a level two. And I started to identify that Luca, what I carried was a whole lot of stress. And I would get these tension, stress, headaches from my shoulders. Luca, literally, and I know some people might be listening um on on uh and not see the video, but I'm holding my traps here. I would literally [clears throat] get headaches that would go from here up the back of my neck, wrap around and literally catch on to my eyes. Tension, stress, headaches. That was one of the surefire signs people get them. Blood pressure raises. I didn't really feel a blood pressure raise though. Okay. But some people do get the blood pressure. I get the tension, stress, headaches. That's a that's a sign. That's usually that's like a level one sign for me. Take a deep breath. Slow down. And another huge thing though, this is what I started to experience a couple years ago. I started to like have trouble breathing and it was the onset of an anxiety attack. That's another big one cuz anxiety attacks aren't necessarily just about anxiety. Mhm. Those are another sign of whoa, something deeper is going on here. It's a level of stress and a level of uncertainty that starts to trigger those ambiguity in our life can really trigger those anxiety attacks and that ambiguity the lack of alignment lack of clarity that all goes into that burnout methodology. M. So for me, for me when I started dipping a little bit, I started traveling downward. I really identified that. And what I did was I looked because I had experience the first time around when I hit rock bottom. I didn't have the experience and I kept ignoring things. I'm just busy. It's just a season of my life. It's just this. It's just this. And we keep making excuses for why it's not something bigger. No, I'm under control. Nothing's controlling me. Because burnout controls you and you let it because of the chaos going on around you and your body starts to have the feeling of overwhelm when the reality is it's the chaos that's going on around us. So we need to eliminate that chaos. Well, how do we do that? Well, we need to first be able to identify some signs that something is not right. It's kind of like the same thing when you know you have the flu coming on. start getting the sniffles, start getting a headache, got some chills. They say, "Oh man, my stomach's not feeling too good." And we identify, "Hey, I'm not feeling well. I need something for this." Burnout's the same way, except we try to ignore it. What do you wish you understood before you had burnout? Oh, that's a deep question. Mhm. Oh, there's there's there's like so many things I look back at at that sixmonth time frame that led to my collapse. So many things I look at and I wish that back then I would have just been able to be smart enough and courageous enough to identify the things I'm feeling are not okay and I can't live like this. Instead, it's stubbornness. I wrote about this the other day in a blog. It's it was stubbornness on my part. I'm conquering the world and I need to keep conquering the world. So, I'm going to be stubborn. I'm going to fight through this and I'm going to come out on top because I'm the best. And it's that own internal I was an athlete my whole life. You know, athletes ain't going to stop for nothing. True. We're going to keep driving through. Do you think that mentality is what [clears throat] got you to get the burnout in the end? 100%. Yeah, 100%. Cuz Luca, it's not taking me out. I'm Jason Shadok. Burnout's not going to hit me. This isn't going to hit me. No, I'm stubborn. I'm just going to dig in deeper. I'm going to clinch my heels in deeper and I'm going to stop this wall and I'm going to push back on the wall. And you know something? Next week, I'm going to sleep more. Mhm. Next week I'm going to hit the gym and work out a little bit harder. And then the next week would come and then the next week would come and I didn't change any of the behaviors because I lost my behaviors. I lost my habits as I just slowly succumbed to the pressure, the stress, the chaos around me, the lack of clarity, lack of a vision of where we were going. I didn't know where the hell we were going. and Luka, we were just going and I was going to make it all happen. And it's that pride, that [clears throat] pride, that stubbornness. I didn't identify the level of stress I was carrying. I wasn't sleeping. I wasn't even eating anymore at times. I shouldn't say I wasn't eating at all. I'm someone who eats six, seven times a day. I was eating once or twice a day. And sometimes I was forcing myself to eat. Uh there's some people when they go through this, they just start eating a bunch of junk and they gain five or 10 pounds and that's a sign to them that something wasn't right. Me, I was the opposite way. I actually like lost a couple pounds and I wasn't eating. You know, you know, at first you're like, "Oh, I'm just more cut up now. This is good. Some belly fat's gone." You don't think nothing of it. You're just, "Hey, I look in the mirror and hey, I'm getting some abs again." Well, no, dummy. You don't realize you're getting the abs because you're not healthy. Mhm. And and that that lack of sleep, the lack of the lack of the heart, right, to show up for people and truly serve them and be happy. I lost my happiness. I wasn't happy during that period of time at all. There weren't things that were exciting me. And so in this period where you were feeling burned out, you weren't happy, what was the other side like? I don't think anybody noticed the weight loss. I really don't. I had there was like one or two people that made a comment, "Oh, you're getting a you're you're dropping a couple pounds. You're getting cut up." I worked out, so I think people just thought I was trying to drop a couple pounds and get cut up. So, in a way, that part worked negatively for me cuz people again, hey, you're looking good. You look like you dropped a couple pounds. Yeah, dude. Cuz I'm stressed out as all get out. Cuz stress stress does two particular things. It either you get you stress eat or you don't eat. And back then, the stress made me not eat. Now, now that I'm older, that stress just makes me eat and I get fat. So, it's a it's a whole different world. But Luca, that was so that was while it maybe felt positive to me, that was actually kind of negative cuz it just fed into the ego. It fed into my stubbornness. Here's here's the one thing I did notice in the moments. I didn't take anything of it. People just acknowledged I was under an incredible amount of stress in both life and work. They were like, "Hey, you know, your wife's pregnant. You're going through a lot. There's a lot of stress on you here." So when I would snap a little bit and get angry with people or or maybe have an attitude, [clears throat] people were letting it slide a little bit. H it wasn't it wasn't like people, hey Jason, what's up? You've really been cranky for the last week. Like people weren't calling me out on it. And that actually again turned out to be kind of negative. Mhm. because that let me keep going down those behavior lines. So for me, that's another thing. I I knew I was hitting and now I know I was I'm where I was. It's easy to look back in hindsight today and say, "Oh, that was an obvious sign, dude. You were cranky with everybody." And then you'd have your moments where we ran an event or opened a facility or started a new program where we would share excitement. my daughter was born, we shared a lot of excitement, you know, uh having my son's birthday, we shared a lot of excitement. So, people get to see these exciting times, too. But man, there were so many negative times like you just seeing this snapshot of these exciting times. So, people let it go because during the exciting times, I really sent a lot of praise. Luca, thank you so much, man. Really appreciate all your help. We couldn't have done this without you. or or it was Luca, thank you so much for being here for my son's birthday party. Really just appreciate your support and your friendship. Really appreciate that. You know, and they were that would offset the negative and they it's almost like I was given a pass back then. Now looking back though, like dude, I was a wreck. Many people talk about burnout. What do you think is missing from the conversation? I would love for people to go in depth a little bit more like we have today. about what strikes them. We live in a society that just wants to sales pitch so much. And I think sometimes we lack the compassion and the depth that goes with that. I think every one of these conversations there's a lot of validity too and and people should share their story in a deep meaningful way and how it impacted them. And I think we need more acknowledgement for the way we were with people. Like I just expressed to you how I was like a jerk to work with during those times. And then I'd have my moments that you know everyone just oh he's praising us right now. So everything's good. How was your attitude towards people who would bring up burnout? I feel like you're calling me out on this cuz and it's good that you're calling me out on it. I really appreciate this question. This is why I say it takes courage to come out and talk about it and to acknowledge it because Luca, I ignored it. You ignored I ignored any message from anyone else, anyone that was talking about burnout at that time. And I would look and say, "Oh, dude, they just don't know how to do it. They just need to go do this. They need to go do this. They'll be fine. Oh, it's just a season of their life. Oh, why are they why are they whining about it? It's fine." Was that something you would say to their face? No. Okay. No. And if if someone So that that's a really good point. And I'm talking more of a global scale. If you saw it on social media or you read an article about it, that was my mindset. Did people feel comfortable enough to approach you, do you think? Um, I'm going to say 75% my answer is no. M 75% no because they believe I would tell oh you're fine just push through it you're going to be good don't worry about it oh here do this and this and you'll be okay or hey go take a day or two off you'll be fine so 75% no the 25% that would really come in and open up and talk about things they were people who had a different comfort level with being vulnerable and I would have to sit sit down and really slow down and I could like literally I would sit in a conversation like this whether it was personal or work and like I could feel my heartbeat just going boom boom boom boom boom boom like like oh you're fine shut up quit doing this and then as they're talking about things though Luca I could see some of myself in them and I'd ignore it and people would come to me and and want to have these conversations and rarely was my answer ever stop my answer today would totally different. My answer back then was like, "Push through it. You'll be fine. Take a couple days off. You'll be okay." And that's and so, yeah, you're right, man. I I was I was 25 75 25%. People would come to me a little bit. 75% they wouldn't touch me with that topic because, man, I was I was Superman. I was living up here. There was an expectation that I could just drive through anything. And I guess admitting to the other person that what they were having was real was also admitting to yourself that you were having the same issues. And I'm too stubborn to do that. Right. [laughter] So Jason, how do you get the courage to speak up? Like where do you start? Where do you start? Well, for me it was hard cuz I was We've talked obviously through this. I was really stubborn. I wasn't going to acknowledge anything. I didn't have the courage to start. I never did start. And that's why I hit the floor in a bathroom and couldn't move. That's the rock bottom, Luca. Literally, my wife had to help me off the floor and into the bed and my head was throbbing so much no medication worked. I was taking all the overounter med I could and nothing was working. Luca, I literally thought I was dying. That's how bad my head hurt. And then it kind of streamlined through my body feeling like a flu. that just zapped any level of energy I had. So, Luca, I hit rock bottom. That's that valley. I I fell off the mountain, fell into the valley. My wife helped me up, drove me to the hospital where a series of tests over the next 3 to four weeks took place. At one point, they were testing me for a brain tumor cuz nobody could I wasn't opening up. Yeah, I was stressed out and they do you have any stress in your life? Uh, no. I'm okay. I mean, we opened up a new rec center. I got this going on. Got this going on. And the the doctor looked at me like I was freaking crazy. Finally, he's like he he I want to check something on you real quick. I said, "Okay, go ahead." He stands up, comes to the side of me, grabs my trap, squeezes it, and he just said, "Oh my goodness." I was like, "What?" Pretty strong, huh? And he's like, "Uh, yeah, but that's that's not why I'm I'm shocked. Do you realize the level of stress you're holding in your shoulders? This is why you're getting the headaches." And he literally forced me to open up a little bit. And then of course, as we go through the day, my wife talking to me about the appointment, talking to me about things. And Luca, that was the point where I finally started opening up some. I was forced to. I was I wanted no part of opening up. I wanted no part of saying anything. In fact, when I went back to my work environment, I was only giving them like 25 to 40% of the story. I wasn't going to tell them like, "Yeah, I had burnout. I got the I I literally told them, I have these migraines. Here's what's going on. I'm carrying a lot of stress and I need to do better with this. And they all understood. They're like, "Yeah, I'm not surprised, dude. You're trying to carry the whole world on your shoulders, Luca. What I wish I would have done that I would do now and I would encourage others to do now is to step up and go to someone whether it's a friend whether it's a peer at work whether it's a spouse a partner whatever the case is a family member I don't care anybody and just open up about what you're experiencing And if if you're the person they're talking to, a simple question, why do you think you're feeling these things? Mhm. And they start to explain some. Why are you feeling stressed? Or why do you think you're not sleeping? Or why do you think you're not eating? Or why do you think you're overeing from stress? Why do you think you're doing this? Why is the stress impacting you like that? Why are you getting headaches? just ask why and keep diving deeper. Because here's what I will say. After I finally opened up a little bit, every conversation thereafter, let's pretend initially I only gave 25%. Mhm. Eventually I gave 40. Eventually I gave 50. Eventually I gave 60. and Luca eventually I opened up about everything and that was the turning point when I finally would admit to myself in this case it was my wife and I would admit to my wife I admitted to my cousin I admitted to a couple co-workers now Luca this took months I'm simplifying it this took months for me to get to a full recognition so as a friend as anybody We can just ask why and then continue to dive deeper. Because that person who might be experiencing something or they're unsure, if we get them to open up just a little bit and then drive it a little bit more, I promise you they're going to continue to open up more and more because repetition builds comfort and acknowledgement. And the biggest thing we can do when someone practices something and they have some success with it, they're going to come back and practice it again and again and again until they keep going further and further. And to a person like this neighbor I was talking to that says, you know, it's okay. I'll push through it. Um, I know it's burnout. A few weeks of vacation will do the trick. What would you tell someone like that? Vacation doesn't solve it. I tried it. It doesn't work. It's not vacation alone. So, I love your question. Vacation helps. Vacation masks it. Vacation helps us to recharge. Vacation is an important ingredient in the overall overcoming of this journey. What does overcoming that journey look like if you're in it? This is where I literally designed and I did not know I was designing it at the time. I built it, designed it and later in life it became the H cubed formula. The H cubed formula is what helped me to realign to have clarity and what I was doing professionally and personally. It helped me systemize. That is the system that personally helped me become the leader I wanted to be, the person I wanted to be, and helped me not just beat burnout, but be create a sustainable life and prevent burnout from happening because I can now identify it. Years ago, I didn't even know I was doing the H cube formula. I had no idea. I was just doing these things. Later in life, obviously you and I are part of BBG and we get acronyms and we get systemization and we get all these cute things. Luca, that's where I really was like, "Oh, wait a minute. This is the HQ formula. It's health, heart, and habits." And I discovered this in 2009 without knowing it. I was laid off from that job that I had described led me to burnout. I got laid off from my job one month after my daughter was born. Didn't know what I was going to do. So, I did what anybody, any rational person would do. My wife and I went to the store. We bought a large pizza and a 12-pack of beer. Sounds like a plan. [laughter] And then we just enjoyed our night. And then the next day, I woke up to conquer the day. Well, Luca, that particular moment in time saved my life and probably my marriage as well because we were drifting going in two different directions because of careers. Health, heart, and habits are irreplaceable. That time I spent away from work helped me align these things. And then I went back into the workforce. Here's why it was imperative to me, Luca. There is nothing if we don't have our health we don't have much and I lost my health during that period of time and the health the way we revitalize health the way we maintain health and sustain it is about finding out what works for us number one was exercise I I am someone I get up at 4:30 in the morning guilty [laughter] high five buddy air high five here we I'm someone that that has that. It doesn't Your exercise doesn't have to be the same as mine. Y'all go find yoga, Pilates, go for a walk on the beach or a walk on a trail, depending on where you live. Take a morning walk. John Gordon, who is an author and speaker, he has a book I speak about called the seven commitments of a great team. and he talks about taking walks of gratitude every morning. It can be as simple as that. It can be a walk after lunch, a walk after dinner, things like that. Exercise is important. Nutrition, Luca, what we put in our bodies is what fuels our bodies. Our nutrition is key to this. You have to eat in a way that sustains your body, that sustains your habits that you have throughout the course of the day. Because a lot of times you get tired or you lose energy because you don't have enough nutritional value in your body. And it's not just about taking supplements. That's not what I'm preaching here. I'm talking about eating the right foods throughout the course of the day. I eat six to seven times a day. I have three main meals, but then I have these subsequent snacks I have during the day, whether it's veggies or fruit or granola bars and things like that. I and and you have to discover what works for you, but it's exercise. It's nutrition. And one thing everybody forgets is hydration. Holy cow. Oh, yeah. Water makes up the majority of your body. True. You have to hydrate. I have literally watched people in meetings get tired and want to fall asleep literally because they just they don't have any hydration levels going. They don't even have a water bottle in front of them in a meeting. I always have water bottles with me constantly non-stop. And Luca, we opened up talking about some of what I experienced with burnout because of lack of sleep. That sleep is a key component to our health. I'm speaking on behalf of the listener that is, you know, managing a lot of stuff, has this busy work, has family, maybe kids, responsibilities. It sounds too good to be true to say, you know, I'm going to have time to do walks and to go to the park and to have healthy meals and home-cooked meals every night. Like, that sounds for many maybe irrealistic. You raise a great point and I can tell you I did this through having two kids, working a full-time job and coaching high school football and my wife works full-time and we had our kids. We were taken to youth sports. No. If this is important to you, if systemizing this is important, if this is the only way you can keep up, which is the only way we could, on Sunday, all of our snacks are done. All of our breakfast are put together. You should have seen what our refrigerator looked like. I wish I had a picture of what it used to look like. It was all containers of everything. My stuff on the right, her stuff on the left, and you grab and go. And you're on the road and you're prepared for the day because you have you have to take it upon yourself to prepare yourself, right? Preparation precedes performance. Is this the age of habits like creating those habits? Uh that gets into some of it. Yeah. Is the habits because yeah, that health part we talked through. If you fast forward past the the heart part, if you fast forward to the habits, yeah, systemizing it, habits for me personally, yeah, these were the habits we had to go through. And then I have some other various habits like I have to exercise. If I don't exercise, I can't show up the way people expect. So, I have a I have my habit of exercise. There are things on a daily basis I have to do to make sure I show up. I'm going to wake up before everybody. and Luca, when I show up to work, one of the first things I'm doing is I'm going to look at some of my hard tasks and I'm going to do those while I'm fresh and energized before my day starts dragging out with all the various chaoses that could go on. So, that's part of that habit as well. I with the habits I put in usually three 90inut focus sessions for myself a week for me in my home life I can tell you right now like on a Saturday and Sunday that early focus time is going to be having a glass of water reading whatever book I'm reading at that time it's going to be some reading because that's some me focused on how do I nourish my brain it's going to be some reading and then I'm going to go on a 1-hour bike ride. So that's my focus time at home. So now when I come back from my bike ride, my exercise, I'm ready to do everything with the family the rest of the day. I noticed that for me it works to book these slots because it also gives me the peace of mind that I'm just doing that one thing without switching all the time or you know getting myself all over the place and then feeling worthless because I didn't get anything done. Yeah. So Jason, we skipped the heart. Just briefly give us an overview of what that means. Absolutely. I would love to. Heart is that's us. That's our heart. That's how we serve others. When our heart is full, we give our best quality of service to all of those around us. When our heart is full, we produce the best that we can. To have the heart of service, to have the levels that we need, our health has to be in alignment first. to our heart. We need clarity and we need to be able to align with our family and with our staff, co-workers that we work with. And we have to empower other people. That's the biggest thing at work. You can't do it all yourself. You have to have a heart of service in the empowerment of others and be there as their support mechanism and trust in them. And that is what truly helps us align. And when our heart is full, we are the service that we need to be to others. And when we have this, we can avoid that burnout phase because our heart helps define our purpose. And we all know when we forget our purpose, that's when we really start to dip into burnout. When we forget our purpose, when we forget our why, and it's, and I I almost hate to use this term, Ben Newman uses this term, what's our burn? Our burn is bigger than our why. It's bigger than our purpose. Our burn is what drives us. Now, I almost hate to use the term burn when we're talking burnout as well, right? [laughter] Uh, you know, and it was I think I think that it's really important though to acknowledge that. And that's that that's that heart. That's our purpose. That's how we serve others. That's how we show up. And Luca, my heart sucked during that period of burnout. I was not good. I was not who I wanted to be. So I realized this is my health, my heart, and my habits, my daily habits. And at night time, I have I have habits. So give me the first like small step. someone who's listening for someone who is listening who is not in burnout or someone who is experiencing burnout both situation what would their first small step be you got to do something for yourself has to be for yourself so what what I want them to identify is within health can you manage one day a week going to the yoga class. There's your step. Cuz Luca, we have to take a step and we have to succeed at that step to give us the confidence. Start with one one yoga class or start with I'm not exercising at all, so I'm literally going to take a 15-minute walk after dinner every day. I want you to start small because you have to find these little victories. increases your dopamine levels, your excitement, and your self self-accomplishment because that burnout's about you. So for me, the biggest thing if someone if someone would have talked to me, if someone would have really dug deep with me, it would have been either sleep or nutrition could have resonated with me pretty big. And I think that would have got to me. And and the reason I say that is I wasn't sleeping. And there's like certain rituals that I like I have a habit now that I go through is I I know I'm going to bring it down. I'm going to watch some TV cuz part of that health is also having the relaxation at the end of the night. Can you take an hour and decompress at the end of the night? And it's, you know, it's not always with a glass of bourbon, but you know, I'm not opposed to a glass of bourbon occasionally. And the thing the thing that it really comes down to for for me is that decompression at the end of the night. I'm going to get a little stretching in before I go to bed. I'm going to get and then I'm going to get to my bed and I'm just going to lay there and I'm going to let my mind slowly wander and come down. And these were these were things I needed to learn. This didn't happen overnight. So for me, that would have been my first step. Yeah. How to flush out everything and then be at peace. Go to sleep. And Luca, as you end your workday, this is the person who maybe is like me who is chasing things all over the place. My number one piece of advice to them at the end of your workday, pull up your calendar, look at what's on your worklist for tomorrow, understand what's on the worklist for tomorrow, take the final 15, 20 minutes of your day to prepare for tomorrow. Because those of us that experience this, one of the biggest things we do is we wake up in the middle of the night with our mind racing about tomorrow and things that have not happened yet. Fear sets into that. So that would be my number one thing for them is is that was a habit I had to create. So before I log off tonight, I'm going to look at my calendar. I'm going to know what Well, I guess, you know, it depends what day of the week it is. For me, tomorrow is going to be a weekend, so it won't be quite the same. So, but you get what I'm saying. Like, if if even on a on a Sunday, I will take a glance at my calendar for 15 minutes, look through. Okay. Okay. Here's what my Monday looks like. Here's how I have it set up. And that's a beautiful piece. So, I guess I gave you like two steps in there, you know, two because that's how someone would have reached me. All right. when I was too ignorant and too stubborn. And you know that final piece for me that changed the game was booking the 90minute focus session. Book that one day a week to start. I want you to talk directly to the person listening. What would be your parting words? It's scary. And I know it's scary. And as your as your body changes, as your mind changes, as you continue to try to show up to be everything to everyone, as you're not sure, I get it. I've been there. The biggest thing I want to portray to you is you are absolutely not alone. I promise you that if you are in a room of 20 people, I bet 25 to 50% of the people in that room, even though they're hiding it, even though their social media feed looks like they live the most glamorous life in the world, they are feeling some of the same things you are. I promise you, you're not alone in that. I encourage you to step up to have conversations with people close to you. Start with people close to you that you trust and just open up. Even if it's just about one piece. Hey, I'm really struggling to sleep at night. Maybe you're experiencing three different things. Just open up with one. open up that conversation because I promise you as you open up one conversation, the next conversation gets easier. It's like working out. It's a muscle. That courage is a muscle. And I want you to build your courage muscle conversation by conversation. So, where can people find you if they want to reach out? Absolutely. So, you can find me a couple ways. uh social media, any so uh Instagram and LinkedIn are my two highly used profiles. And it's literally just look up my name, Jason. And you can also email me at jasonjasonock.com or find my website. It's literally jason chadok.com. And I'm going to put everything in the show notes so people know where to find you. We put all the links there. Jason, thank you so much for taking time and having this conversation with me. It was my pleasure, Luca. I love being here with you. You've become a good friend of mine over a over a quick short period of time here. I'm really excited about uh our our future as we grow together. I feel the same way. I want to thank you a lot and uh we'll see each other soon, man. Sounds great, Luca. Ciao. And to you listening, I hope this conversation helped you notice something about yourself. And if it made you think of someone you care about, share it with them. We all need people to help us notice what we can't always see for ourselves. I'd love to hear what resonated with you. So, let me know in the comments below. And if you'd like to stay connected, don't forget to subscribe. I'm Luca and I look forward to seeing you in our [music] next conversation. It's your life. You only have one to live. Become who [music] you know. Take control of what's yours [music] and live with intention. Step by step, you were made for more. Go it all. [music] Your life, your story, your next move.